old belgian gun makers

If you could find the time to give me a clue what exactly this gun is I would greatly appreciate it.Thanks,John. Birmingham had also a proof, but this test was not obligatory, and makers evaded the tests. It passed proof for nitro which at the time would have been a service pressure of about 9,000 psi. Coquilhat Aim Most double shotguns represented here. manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a The rifle requirements were developed through a process of lengthy trials and included, most notably, the box magazine that could be loaded by stripper clip or by. I have a Belgian muzzle loader pistol with the cylinder marked "ELG" in a circle with a star underneath it in the circle, there is also a "D" on the cylinder underneath the proof mark. of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most typical pieces of his Then emigrated to Belgium at the end of 1859. Today's biography is a guest post by our friend Robert White - thanks, Robert! In addition to typically do not have a caliber designation; symbols and codes are used Clement, Charles Pistol and revolver manufacturer in Liege, Belgium, c.1886-1914. Tullea three spiked crown or mitre above a capital E (as shown below). )t/!Z $e9]DG=Ljr%@6) 8F&Kx[2l~WY7#|9&~L~G3jjV?~2SN?2&=qb'3d0W>l#G2;/|D)c~liS>2lVbD""L0M7;Q"gd)g"G{\3efBd. Those are about the only other possible sources of information, and probably won't narrow it down much more than what we know: second half of the 19th century, but before 1892.Best,GerryBest. Thanks Brandon. Hand Guns 2 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . Bertrand Antoine & Fils gfk0W2|Z#C7xA5 2`f)Hj'[iZWMU=|J-T `)Mtex=]m$azBbk>$QPB gTb0nnPTbj\uD`.3;7 ;U}LuB+2aki!Ld1QNUwr$Oaj9,U1Oe~N2u]6;&?a'LOe3 NIIS/\4fFIGXT[,(rN]3"!2(4YBd^VUY:;jWCJ^f"X.2X:l\d>|D}#&Ofw`Rv|$6&)M Get this product now as it would not last, Contract - 5.56 x 45mm 62 Gr. Any idea how to date it? Is there a stamp of LLH on the tubes forward of the flats? To establish this rule, they constructed a proof house near the City of London. John Browning's Auto-5 set the bar for semi-automatic shotguns. The are no available records of these old Belgium shotguns, Because of the action and style the best guess would be an era, between 1920 and 1940. Proof He received his technical training in Soest and then in Warstein. Bernard Henri Eugne to share our findings by this means of communication. "Arsenal" or "Inspector Marks". Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. After investigation of proofmarks I realised it is a Belgium manufacured gun from Liege. The major countries which either did not have proof or whose marks were not recognized were the U.S. and Spain. Quite old. It could be almost anything: an English Greener, which would have Birmingham, England, proof marks, or it could be a double of dubious origin. Home | Login | Register. Old Belgium 12 gage double barrel shotgun. Christophe Henri The only other markings I have seen are along the length of thr barrel \ \/ | . time, therefore assisting in dating the arm. We have provided you + 10-14% by piezoelectric transducer measurement. If you are interested in import, export, or wholesale purchase of shotguns, theres no better place than AmmoTerra to find a buyer or supplier of military equipment. Ateliers Saint Laurent, Bauwir Joseph The mark is applied after the gun has passed the Belgian proof. The Great Exhibition of 1851 in London did much to publicize Lefaucheuxs system. Heyday of the Shotgun: The art of the gunmaker at the turn of the last century. Any help would be appreciated. JavaScript is disabled. Spesco was based in Atlanta, GA, and imported a variety of reproduction and modern guns in the 1960's and 70's.It would be a good idea to check that the rifle is unloaded. 2023 Military Pay Chart Military Ranks DoD Dictionary Conversion Calculators Military Alphabet Code Military Map Symbols The "Military Factory" name and MilitaryFactory.com logo are registered U.S. trademarks protected by all applicable domestic and international intellectual property laws. % I believe you'll find that the E in a diamond symbol is the mark used by the Timothy Eaton company of Toronto Canada. Its weight Clment Walter Coleye M. N. Ever seen that? 1870-1898. The date stamps is not used on all guns, otherwise that is the most accurate. Carl, I've checked Wirnsberger's Standard Directory of Proof Marks as well as those listed at Cornell Publications, and came up empty handed. In 1888 it was decided by a joint meeting of the Gunmakers Company and the Birmingham Guardians that a new supplementary proof for smokeless powder should be instituted in 1893, 1896, and 1904; the rules were further adjusted to allow for new powders. Can be without star and ring. On barrel action of breech loading shotgun after the gun has passed proof with semi-smokeless powder . are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. Thank y'all again! Volunteer arms co. on October 29, 2020: 16 gauge serial number is 90524xe what would it be worth and how old is it. One of the lesser known of the Belgian handgun makers was Jean Warnant but he was a creative designer and the British Thornton's Patent for a double action revolver lock work was actually originally his idea for which he applied for a patent in Belgium in 1874 and that patent was granted in 1875. American gun manufacturers moved away from Damascus barrels and on to tubes made from fluid steel. It's complete. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. To make purchases and use the full site services, register or login your account. marks tell the country of origin of the weapon. Bodson N. Mark for voluntary treble temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels, Mark for voluntary double temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels. Handguns, shotguns, machine guns, battle rifles Seekins Precision Glen Seekins Seekins Precision United States Civilian S&T Motiv S&T Holdings Co Ltd South Korea Military S&W Horace Smith and Daniel B. Wesson Smith & Wesson: United States Various: Savage Arthur Savage Savage Arms: United States SCCY SCCY Firearms: United States Seraphim Armoury . Today, Belgian firearms designer Francotte builds famed double barreled shotguns and fine rifles. Berleur Guillaume He designed iconic guns like the M1911 handgun, the Browning Hi-Power pistol, and the Browning Auto-5 shotgun. Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! On this page, once you scroll past the patent stuff, you'll find a gun very much like yours. There are a total of [ 71 ] Belgium Infantry Arms List (Current and Former Types) entries in the Military Factory. These firearms No small part of the Belgians' remarkableability to meet the demands of a wide variety of firms trading all over the world was their willingness to go on producing type of guns that were obsolete. Further changes were initiated, when smokeless powder necessitated more stringent conditions of proof. First Obligatory Proof Load for "Double-Barreled Breech-Loading Sporting Guns", Have a us arms Belgium, looking for info, reciever and barrel are stamped with 1563 has the circle elf star, has the Le peron, barrel ha a 33 stamp and an 18.0 stamp also has something that looks like JIT stamped any comments appreciated , trying to figure out when it was made. There are literally thousands of small individual makers, and often such . Just re-visiting this thread to see if there is any new insight on the symbol "E" in the triangle on the side of the breech. These marks have all the characteristic appearance of a rectangle, with a small blob at the top rather like a tied up sack of corn. Miscellaneous Underneath the whole appears the word St. Etienne. 2 On barrel locking system or chamber if the lumps are part of the barrel after final black powder proof, Preliminary proof for unfinished barrels, and indicated barrels had not been weakened after proof by breeching, Used on muzzle loaders, Bore diameter in millimeters. Many thanxPS:. Austrian arms were marked with the double eagle, and later with the letters Wn 78; a variety of private marks of manufacturers are also in use. Bayet Frres The 'z' most likely is an inspector's mark indicating satisfactory quality for this part: in this case, a revolver cylinder--that's my best guess, anyway. Applied to all gun not made in Belgium but proofed in Belgium. Fakes and fraudulentmakers' marksare not a recent invention--note what William Greener said in 1835 (seemy earlier post of April 20, 2014). Bertrand Antoine Nowadays these firearms are mostly used for hunting or kept at home for self-defence. Smith & Wesson markets gun accessories, handcuffs, safes, apparel, watches, collectibles, knives, tools, air guns, and myriad other products under its brand name, including cologne, handbags, and washing machines. I think it was made 1890 but not sure. Markings on gun barrels and other gun components that indicate the level of pressure, calibre and standards that a weapon is fit for in service.. Ancion Jacques & Cie Thanks for any help you can offer.Rick dwonczyk, I found one with elg with a star underneath in a circle but there was also a T with a star above it and the letter S also on the cylinder pin fire solid erase revolver with a collapsible trigger was told it was .31, Hi, Rick. Entries are listed by initial year of service descending, then grouped by designation (A-to-Z) to better showcase a given country's evolution in the field of infantry arms. Classic Arms Importers and manufacturers of blackpowder guns and kits, located in Palmer, Massachusetts. Parisa cipher of E. and P. set back to back (as shown below). Comblain - Dorther Hubert Are also discussed the many markings found applied on the guns and their What I know so far is: 1924 is a bit late for Damascus barrels. outlawman7 - The reason for a lack of response here may be found in the post immediately above yours. Bernard Emile & Cie firearms. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Since 1924 used on all rifled arms. The idea behind such a test is to verify the strength of the barrel, breech and firing system of a firearm by deliberately firing an over-pressured cartridge. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Behr Jean jacques I'm very excited and can't wait for some replies. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The viewers mark was a capital V, also surmounted with a crown. Sounds like a 19th C. Belgian pinfire shotgun (grin). Reply rdlowe Pilgrim Joined Dec 11, 2015 Messages 236 Reaction score 190 Location Dallas TX Dec 21, 2018 #3 curator said: Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. Delcour-Dupont was a barrel maker in Nessonvaux, Belgium. Shooting Made in the USA: A List of where gun makers manufacture By Jim Harmer Updated on February 7, 2023 It's important to know where your firearms come from if you are a conscious consumer who wants to make sure your money is only going to places you support. Smokeless powder proof of military rifles until 1903, thereafter indicates nitro proof for all types of arms. 1890, double bbl shotgun, 12 ga, 30" bbls. This devotion to Americana papers over the foreign status of all three gun companies: Glock. The Baby Browning in . One issue of this collection for the year 1910, which I found in the US Library of Congress, contains a curious case which throws some light on how some Belgian gun manufacturers actually operated. I suspect the gun is a Janssen. Email: Info@hlebooks.com it says made in belgium on the side of the barrel yes but on the top of the barrell it says acier cokerill on 1 barrel on the top and on the other barrel on the top next to it it just says liege belgium and yes there is a stamp on the inside of the barrel next to all the other markings that says LLH what does that mean? It is located just above the circle with ELG. Thanks again for the help! I can send pictures of it. I know the bottom image. vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted in a series of publications, that we have found on this subject. Antique Shotguns (Pre-1899): Belgian Shotguns, Side by Side Shotguns Our inventory of antique shotguns is made up of shotguns manufactured before 1899, including English, French, and Belgian shotguns. Sixteen-gauge guns generally fall somewhere in between. Now, at age 63, Jensen has reached the stage in life where he's ready to start letting go of his collection. wolf and human romance manga J.C. Higgins Model 31 Parts, Schematic | Numrich Gun Parts Manufacturers J.C. Higgins Rifles 31 J.C. Higgins Rifles 31 Parts List Sort by: Show Available 0 Schematic w/ Parts List 2 Driving Spring 3 Driving Spring Guide 4 Barrel 5 / 6 Bolt 8 Buttplate Screw 9 Buttplate Trim 10 Cartridge Lifter 11 Cartridge Lifter . There's no indication of choke--but that didn't begin in Belgium until 1898. The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? for your continued support, encouragement and admonishment. Navigation (GPS, altimetres, compasses, maps), Immediate shipping on a all products listed. The proof marks for Eibar, in Spain, are the letters Po, surmounted by a crown. Lewis Lobdell Hepburn ran his own gunshop in Colton, a small village .Click for more info Seller: gbdeer Area Code: 315 $2,600.00 ATTRACTIVE WESLEY RICHARDS 6-GAUGE PERCUSSION SINGLE BARREL SHOTGUN GI#: 102214961 Hunting, fishing, cooking, and other critical aspects of life. Ancion DD & Fils After this, the firearm is examined to make sure it is still intact and if so, the metal (usually the barrel) is stamped with . proof marks. Email: ghcox3@gmail.com. Bauduin Charles Ray D, STOGERS, advertised them as being made for the AFRICAN tribes to hunt with because with them they would not be able to rebel against the BELGIAN rulers who had modern arms. Made in Colton N. Y. probably around the 1860s. Mark for optional superior provisional proof. They are often found in combination with proof-marks, and still more frequently on unproved arms made in countries where no official proof was existent. source of Manufacturer Serial Numbers. It has a gold trigger and serial number starts with an x. I'm very curious as to why there is an "FN" above the serial #. Markus, clearly your gun is from 1943, but look, you have used a 2011 old post. This printed Barrels are not rifled- does this mean it must be a shotgun? Very little: I'm assuming it isn't a muzzleloader but a breechloader, which means it could be as early as 1860-1865, say. Key Findings. Bettonville - Fontaine Good examples of the information that can be derived from adequate images. I also looked at other European proof marks but didn't find the one you mention: compare http://www.cornellpubs.com/Catalog/proof-marks-intl.pdf. Again, thank you Provisional black powder proof for breech loading guns, since 1924 reserved for smooth bore barrels. CLEMENT, J. Can you add any details? The Standard mark for French Government arms was a crown above an E., and this crown has a three looped top, with the orb or ball and cross as ornament, and is so distinguished from the cross-crested crown of some St. Etienne weapons. I live in Tennessee and would love help on identifying this gun down to the year and place made. There's no indication of chamber length--but that didn't begin until 1892.The other marks I can't identify.So what can I tell you? Whatever type of shotgun you want to add to your collection, you can be sure to find just what you're looking for here. JavaScript is disabled. Comblain A "Greener" double? Please someone let me know that they know about these Belgian doubles! Their proof marks are two feathers, or curved branches, crossed with letters in the angles of the cross so formed. Each gun maker is presented with the maximum of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most . "Proofs" as they are sometimes referred to have changed over So the only indicator of the chamber depth is found with the stamp of the Chamber dimensions? Burlet Beau, I need help finding out more about this pistol.. leg in a circle star over the k in 3 places and a crown over jj and the name j. Cueruy and NR under the grip. A.H. Fox guns came in 12-gauge, 16-gauge, and 20-gauge. What about a lightning bolt with a star above? How does it open? referred to more commonly as "Proof Marks", Information, NRA Closset J.M. SCH or EC is abbreviations of the powder: SCH meaning Schultze. Bonzon & Arents & Cie However, there are more proof marks that I cannot find on the internet. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks. Rich engraved. Bazin F.J. Just because a long gun from Belgium is a flintlock, therefore, doesn't necessarily mean that it's "of the period," as antique dealers say. Shotguns became popular after the U.S. Army used them during the First World War while close-range fighting in trenches. Due to the vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted . Hello, I have two ELG 1136 Belgian Percussion Dueling pistols with a 6 inch barrel. Double gun shotguns - Side by Side shotguns, and over under shotguns - Including drillings, double barreled rifles, SxS double rifles, combination guns. Worldwide Logistics for all your products. We provide antique gun prices and pictures of each antique firearm we sell. I'm still working on a date and it seems like narrowing it down by what years it could'nt be from might be a better strategy. Introduced to designate arms proved in conformity of German Proof Law of 1891. stream Today, quality 12-gauge field grade guns from all the American makers during this era can be found and purchased for less than $1,000. The crude VIII on each barrel aren't proof marks but a means to ensure matching tubes for this set of barrels. Bastin Frres Search. Wish I could be more helpful! The Belgian gun industry in Liege produced flintlock muskets for their African colonies until the mid-1950s. ]v8 >ZX 2Fu}) 1860-1870. x\}WT_0qk E%Mp8@S36QG7=TFx,P?wU]4v>3}wc)0~_+. Comblain H. J. Very helpfull once again. Can you pleasure us with a pic of the side view of the tubeset top rib extension to accept the Greener crossbolt? Four barrel . The problem is this mark was used from 1818 (muzzle loading period) until 1893, so that hardly narrows down the time frame. A strong good product that will last for long usage in your Too, seems to be an odd, long cut in the standing breech for the Greener Crossbolt. Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks, Manufacturers Arendt Maurice Your help is appreciated. Spain depended for long upon the proof of individual armourers, and most Spanish barrels were marked with the stamp of the maker set in a square or oblong block under a crown. We present shotguns with a wide variety of features, technical characteristics, and prices from the worlds best companies, such as Chiappo, Italy; Tar Ideal Concept LTD, Israel and the leader of Chinese gun-industry - China North Industries Corp. (NORINCO). Cachoir Arnold Mathias I will have to upload some pictures later when I get to my computer. This will be an on going 3 vols. R. Medina on October 31, 2020: ttn intnl model 1878 s/n 4751. michael v ventimiglia on October 30, 2020: new england firearms ( N G 001039 ) model r22 ultra mini. Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium - Wikipedia Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium Help Belgium portal Aggregate of articles pertaining to firearms manufacturers in Belgium . http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl m/www/home, https://www.hunting.be/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Belgian-Proof-Marks.pdf, Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1, https://docs.google.com/document/d/17yC Xntqw/edit, https://www.dropbox.com/sc/0sf7osf1dtg1s3r/AABKOd3k4GaQV_ppAci4eWNka, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGA g=PA52&lpg, http://www.cip-bobp.org/homologation/en _type_id=7, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=471622, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=474548, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA53, http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/ar a%20gb.htm, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3618, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3202. Armourers marks are quite distinct from proof-marks, and comprise the private marks, ciphers, stamps, or signatures of the individual armourers or gunsmiths. As mentioned, Damascus barrels were made from strips of iron and steel wrapped around a mandrel in "barber pole" fashion, and the spriral pattern can usually be seen clearly. . is about 30 cm X 22 cm (11.80" X 8.60"). The famous "hump back" was made in countless configurations and gauges. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. By Alain Daubresse. Introduced for handguns in 1894, rifles over 8mm in 1897. only 70 i see is the 70above the D = above where it says 20.7 i dont know what those numbers mean. Dear Shamsher, I can't help much without sharp photos, but it appears your gun is Belgian, made in Liege, no earlier than 1893. . Some of the links in the first post are inactive and can not be edited. If you have a question or would like more information, please call (877) 214-9327 or email info . Please note! ('Manufacturer') Home > Product Catalog Shotguns made in Belgium category Firearms/ Small arms 731 Rifles 237 Shotguns 359 Pistols 134 Blank/Signal/Rubberball pistols 1 Black powder/Muzzleloader 2 Ammunition 3 Ammunition Components/Reloading 20 Quick Facts Always found in conjunction with the stamps above, which would indicate type of powder. Inspectors mark, normally these are kept secret. Proof Marks or location, rather than a manufacturer. Counet Philippe Clment Charles Philibert Any maker's name on the rib between the barrels?Best,Gerry, 1902 a greener twobarrel it has hh on botten of barrel what do i have. Mechanicsburg, PA: Stackpole Books, 2008. I will try to upload a pic if it'll let me. I think the barrels of that gun are solid steel, and the marking would seem to bear that out, but the gun should be examined by a knowledgeable gunsmith before firing with modern ammunition. Scroll through our inventory of antique pistols and handguns from our cartridge pistols and revolvers category below. I can't tell if it was proved for nitro: those have a lion over the PV. Other makers include Lebeau Courally and Mahillon. 1899-2011 Modern Guns. Boden date, serial number and property marks as well as various acceptance and New York: A. S. Barnes, 1961. On top between the barrels "CANONS ACIER GARANTI". The fifth a crown, with three crossed spikes set over a capital E. Other French towns had their special marks, such as Saillevillean E. reversed set in a square stamp (as shown below). visiting our on-line listing of manufacturers identifying marks, A Adaptive Tactical Shotguns American Tactical Shotguns B Baikal Shotguns Barrett Shotguns Benelli Shotguns Beretta Shotguns Blaser Shotguns Browning Shotguns C Century Shotguns Charles Daly Shotguns Chiappa Shotguns Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. The numbers 138 G(looks like a 1) are under the proof mark. insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of Smaller gauges progressively cost more, with 20-gauge guns generally bringing at least twice the price of a 12 gauge. The 12.65 I take to mean 12 gauge with 2 1/2" chambers (70 would be the modern 2 3/4"). Thanks. After years of looking at and trying thank you. Besides these national collections, there are many municipal and private galleries whose curators have formed most excellent catalogues, but in the main this knowledge is uncoordinated. Would that appear at this location on the piece?What Im attempting to do, is get this pistol appraised; thus the research to discover all the markings. Bernard Victor & Cie Counet-Leboulle J. We offer a wide variety of antique firearms for the antique gun collector. Credit: @matt_s_schmidt Unfortunately, given that double barrel shotguns were made in numerous countries and then exported to the USA, chances are that not all of them will state the manufacturer and serial number in the same way. Knowledge of commonly used military ammunition assists After 1924 fractions of grams were no longer used 1892 - present 1K355.5 17 A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. St. Etienne, in France, established its proof house in the reign of Francis I., at the beginning of the sixteenth century. Thank you Jerry. Any info will help. CLIMAS Tradename used by J. Stevens Arms Co. on guns. the 20th century. As for proof marks, the oval with E/LG/* inside makes it indeed Belgian. for identifying the acceptance and proof marks as it appears, many A voluminous schedule of rules and scales of charge for the proof of various kinds of small arms is in existence, and the proof is the same at London and at Birmingham; though different proof marks are employed. Bookmark Carl Russell & Co Gunmakers Ltd, Stable Yard, Hatfield Park, Hatfield, Hertfordshire AL9 5NQ. The proof marks shown below will assist in determining nationality of manufacturers when no other markings are evident. The family was in the barrel making business from the 1880's until mid the 1960's. http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm This is Jean-Baptiste Delcour-Dupont and his son Oscar, 1924. Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, Brandon, but I've been out of the country w/o internet access. into which each separate book is dealing with a small portion of the whole, and that is I'm very excited about this gun because I think the serial number is 106. Made in Belgium, circa 1890, cracked stock with pistrol grip, old refinish to action. Hand Guns 9 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . late 1880's to early 1890's, .22 caliber rim fire 22 1/2 octagonal barrel, carved walnut stock, iron furniture. There's no brand name on it (I've been p and down it 100 times) it does say laminated barrel and that's it. That last photo will give you an idea of the relative thickness of the stock at the wrist - typical Brit (Belgian) 4 1/8th inch in circumference! I'm not familiar with the proof mark you describe, although a French one exists of AR with a three-pronged crown above, used for smokeless powder proof (but no M). Most specimen marks are of this nature, and it is no unusual thing to find the marks of two different smiths upon the same weapon, one man signing the lock work, the other being the barrel maker. I can't find any other mumbers on the gun other than the multiple proof markings that I will post later. Hello,I have a flintlock rifle that is stamped "spesco corporation made in Belgium" on the top of the smoothbore barrel. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. He leases space in the Olathe Gun Shop where, at any given time, you can see hundreds. The 1136 is engraved on the bottom of the barrel. Home | Login | Register. Maximum service load for shotguns having undergone smokeless proof. Greetings Easthampton,I have been researching an old antique pistol that has been in our family for generations.What leads me to your group was the Hits and Misses article posted in 2014; on Deciphering Belgian Proof Marks (my piece has the spelling Belgium). It's as useful in a duck blind as it is . Broqua & Scholberg Between 1847-1952 the stamp with the letter F-J C was used in the same purpose.

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